[Computer-go] Orego 7.08 released

[Hideki Kato]

Aja,

Aja: <0B435C80F12A4EDCAEB1A45E1607BCEC at homepce1bd7763>:
>I re-post because the format seems to be in a mess.
>
>Hi David,
>
>> I also found that it makes no real difference to strength against 
>> computers,
>> but helps a little against people, and makes the games much more peasant 
>> to
>> watch.
>
> I haven't try joseki in Erica, but it looks strange to me that you said 
>joseki "makes no real  difference to strength against computers, but helps a 
>little against people". At least, in the game mfgo against Erica in this KGS 
>tournament, mfgo was leading from the beginning mainly because of good 
>joseki replies in each corner.
>
> I think joseki is very important for Go programs as soon as they reach 1d 
>level. I believe, a Go  program will never reach stable high dan (>=KGS 4d) 
>without joseki knowledge.

Zen uses no opening book for 19x19 (but some joseki knowledge must 
provided by the patterns acquired from game records).  Yamato once 
tried but made Zen weaker in benchmarks, possibly due to a mismatching 
of the playing style.

Hideki

>This is the same with the situations of human learning. When a player is 
>weaker than 1d, joseki is not so important, because if he is leading 10 
>points in the opening stage, the game might be reversed by losing 20 points 
>in an easy semeai of middle game. But, when a player is improved to 1d or 
>2d, joseki starts to make sense, since his reading ability makes the "semeai 
>big loss" much
>fewer.
>
>For me, I can't imagine to beat a 6d player without joseki knowledge. When I 
>lose 10 points in the opening, that is almost decisive. That's why pros 
>sometimes resign early and immediately after wrong joseki playing, because 
>there is no chance to reverse, in their view.
>
>The stronger the playing strengh, the more important the opening play. 9x9 
>Go is exactly a good example for statement. Do you think mfgo, on 9x9, can 
>beat a strong program, if the first move is played at the first line? :)
>
>Aja
>
>
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-- 
Hideki Kato <mailto:hideki_katoh at ybb.ne.jp>