[Computer-go] replacing dynamic komi with a scoring function

[Don Dailey]

On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Aja Huang <ajahuang at gmail.com> wrote:

>   It’s easy to detect “secure” territory by collecting the information of
> ownership from the playouts.
>

I have always called this the "ownership map" for lack of a better term.
I have heard people refer to is as a "futures map."



> If Black owns a region of points in 95% of the playouts, for example, we
> can “safely” say this region is Black’s territory (unless the playouts are
> seriously biased, which is independent to this problem). Go is a game of
> territory and the objective of every move is to gain more territory.
>

Computers have a different objective.    Computer try to win the game,
 humans trying to win territory.



> To cure this problem, besides winning rate we might have to use the
> information of not only “average score” but also “average score of certain
> points”.
>

I fear the program would find ways to trade some territory in for other.
 It does seem like there should be some way to use this information to help.

Don



>
> Aja
>
>
>  *From:* Stefan Kaitschick <stefan.kaitschick at hamburg.de>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 09, 2012 4:38 AM
> *To:* computer-go at dvandva.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Computer-go] replacing dynamic komi with a scoring
> function
>
> By the way, are we sure it is underestimation of the edges and corners ?
> Rather than overestimation of the centre ?
>
>>
>> I know those are equivalent for play itself, but the answer suggests
>> different tries for solution. In the first case, we want to make the bot
>> more aware that he will keep its edge territory. In the second, we want
>> to make it understand that inways made be made in its beautiful centre.
>>
>> Jonas
>>
>>
>
> I think they overestimate both the corners and the center, but they
> overestimate the corners less. :-)
> They will often force from the outside, even when an invasion is
> relatively simple and the outside forcing stones aren't worth much. I can
> only call that overestimating corner safety.
> But at the same time, the center is given even greater priority, because
> the playouts so often come back with a kill of would be invaders.
> Crazy Stone seems to be ahead of the other bots in this.
> My guess is that it's using simulation balancing in the playouts to
> purposely degrade attacking moves.
> Ajas' idea of biasing towards secure territory is a typical strong players
> idea. But what does "secure" mean?
> Maybe the idea Ingo brought up, to naively give corner and edge territory
> a higher weight in the early stages of the game, is more promising. It
> feels like a crutch, but when you have broken leg, a crutch is great.
>
> Stefan
>
>  ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go at dvandva.org
> http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Computer-go mailing list
> Computer-go at dvandva.org
> http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/attachments/20120109/7f61f863/attachment.html>