[Computer-go] Game 2 goes to Zen: 1-1

Tue Jan 17 04:18:55 PST 2012

Wow, this is starting to look like a serious and useful computer analyzing
tool like they have in Chess! It may still lack somewhat super grand master
accuracy, but it should be definitely worthy for spotting obvious blunders
and getting general sense what is happening on board.

I wonder if it is possible, that in the end game or as early as it is
possible, it would not try to find only what moves gives best probability
for win, but what moves would maximize the score. This would be great for
educational purposes and I think that it could be done with two pass
analysis, that in the first pass it would analyze without komi adjusted and
with second pass komi is adjusted so CrazyStone would think that it is
leading just 1-5 points or what is optimal lead for accurate end game. Also
it could monitor that score optimized move would still give good enough,
e.g. more than 70 %, probability for winning when komi is not adjusted.

If you can bring this thing to the commercial version, you can count at
least me in as a potential customer!

Also some minor suggestion would be, that continuation for recommended move
would be visually expressed in diagram as ①❷③❹⑤❻.

But this kind analysis tool would be great!

 –Jouni

On 17 January 2012 10:45, Rémi Coulom <Remi.Coulom at free.fr> wrote:

> It is now replaced by the analysis of game 4:
> http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/~coulom/CrazyStone/index.html
> I improved my system a lot in one day.
>
> Smoothness of the histogram depends on the number of playouts, not safety.
> This one is very smooth because it was running on a big machine instead of
> my laptop.
>
> Congrats to Zen, btw.
>
> Rémi
>
> On 16 janv. 2012, at 11:34, Isaac Deutsch wrote:
>
> > For people who missed it in the Kibitz, Rémi Coulom also put together a
> very nice automatic analysis tool for this game:
> >
> > http://www.grappa.univ-lille3.fr/~coulom/CrazyStone/CrazyAnalysis.html
> >
> > As he stated, it's very experimental (it seems the "Next" link is
> sometimes broken??). I still find it very interesting to look at,
> especially the score histogram. I like how you can observe the gentle drift
> of the median to the right as the game progresses. It's interesting that
> sometimes the distribution is very smooth, while other times, it's rough
> and jagged. I guess this is related to the safety of groups and/or
> territory.
> >
> > Rémi, will you have further analyses for the upcoming games? I'm sure it
> would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Isaac
> >
> > Am 16.01.2012 um 08:07 schrieb Ingo Althöfer:
> >
> >> Hello Jeff,
> >>
> >> thanks for setting up the relay,
> >> and also for posting the sgf with the comments here.
> >>
> >> In the other "relay" (tromp vs zen19n) John made a few
> >> comments directly after the game. I quote him here:
> >> "N7 assumed black would respond to P4 at Q4."
> >> "felt already lost when playing N7 [at move 48]"
> >> "I guess L7 [at move 46; IA] was already a little desperate."
> >>
> >> I have uploaded automatic analysis data by ManyFaces.
> >> * MC percents at
> >> http://www.althofer.de/tromp-zen-03-percents.jpg
> >> * Expected Territories at
> >> http://www.althofer.de/tromp-zen-03-territory.jpg
> >>
> >> Ingo.
> >>
> >> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> >>> Datum: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 21:25:47 -0500
> >>> Von: Jeff Nowakowski <jeff at dilacero.org>
> >>> An: computer-go at computer-go.org
> >>> Betreff: Re: [Computer-go] Game 2 goes to Zen: 1-1
> >>
> >>> Game 3, with mostly dan-level comments:
> >>>
> >>> http://files.gokgs.com/games/2012/1/16/PaperTiger-2.sgf
> >>>
> >>> Zen won by resignation. Series is 2-1 in Zen's favor.
> >>>
> >>> I got Aja 6d and gogonuts 5d to kibitz, and participation by observer
> >>> count was much better, around 60 versus the 260 or so for the
> >>> unmoderated game.
> >>>
> >>> On 01/15/2012 03:03 PM, Jeff Nowakowski wrote:
> >>>> On 01/15/2012 10:18 AM, Michael Williams wrote:
> >>>>> Kibitzing anything in that room is pointless for all the noise.
> >>>>
> >>>> For both games, I set up a clone game with moderated chat where only
> >>>> dans could kibitz. Unfortunately, at best it only had 10%
> participation
> >>>> (based on observer counts) and the strongest and most frequent
> >>>> kibitzers, Aja and gogonuts, kept to the unmoderated game. The one
> >>>> exception was Avidya (David Ormerod from gogameguru.com), who
> provided
> >>>> excellent comments.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'll try and recruit the high level dans before tonight's game, and
> see
> >>>> if I can get the moderated game listed on the Active Games tab next to
> >>>> the unmoderated one. If it doesn't work out, I'll stop trying to host
> >>>> these, as it takes some effort.
> >>>>
> >>>> It would be nice if this could be an automated and standard feature of
> >>>> KGS events, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
> >>>>
> >>>> Here are the two dan-kibitz games:
> >>>> http://files.gokgs.com/games/2012/1/14/PaperTiger.sgf
> >>>> http://files.gokgs.com/games/2012/1/15/PaperTiger.sgf
> >>>>
> >>>> They are a nice way to review the games with some high-level comments.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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