[Computer-go] Beating old ManyFaces at 29 handicap stones

[Don Dailey]

I think the fear was that the player would beat the program the same exact
way each time.    Is that likely to happen without the randomness?

Don


On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 12:05 PM, David Fotland <fotland at smart-games.com>wrote:

> The random number generator is not very interesting for beating the
> program.  All it does is add a small random bias to the evaluation
> function.  The initial seed (from the time) means that every random game is
> a little different.  I just used the system rand() function.****
>
> ** **
>
> There aren’t many move generation patterns that apply when the board
> starts so full, so it’s probably easier to exploit some bad local responses
> that are forced because only one pattern matches.****
>
> ** **
>
> David****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org [mailto:
> computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org] *On Behalf Of *steve uurtamo
> *Sent:* Friday, January 27, 2012 8:58 AM
> *To:* computer-go at dvandva.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Computer-go] Beating old ManyFaces at 29 handicap stones**
> **
>
> ** **
>
> I hate to address it, but access to the binary would pretty much give away
> the structure of the prng. ****
>
> s.****
>
> On Jan 27, 2012 8:46 AM, Ingo Althöfer <3-Hirn-Verlag at gmx.de> wrote:****
>
> Petr Baudis <pasky at ucw.cz>:
> > Ingo Althofer wrote:
> > > David Fotland is willing to provide the old bot - also for sparring
> > > sessions on KGS.
> >
> >   Will David also try to compete? :-)
>
> Serious point. I did not have that in mind.
>
> In principle I would allow him to participate - as long as
> he does not exploit the exact structure of the "pseudo-random"
> generator within MF.
> Knowing David for several years now as an honorable man,
> I would believe him when he gives his word on this.
>
> >   Of course, for experiments it would be neat to have a binary of this
> > version, but maybe that would make the challenge too easy (or prone to
> > overtuning).
>
> As long as MF would play randomly enough, it would remain a
> difficult task.
>
> >   Anyway, sounds wonderful, and Martin Mueller's play in that game is
> > quite something. I'm looking forward to giving this challenge to Pachi.
>
> I think, sophisticated "dynamic komi" will not be enough to achieve the
> level.
> You will need some sort of opponent modelling. But future will show.
>
> And looking over the fence: When a win at handicap 29 is achieved how much
> further could strong bots go?
>
> 33?
> or 37?
> or 49?
>
> Ingo.
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