[Computer-go] patterns in MCTS tree

[David Fotland]

Many Faces uses up to 8x8 patterns to guide the tree, but they are not
learned from professional games.  The patterns were entered by hand, contain
"don't care" of many types, and can suggest multiple moves.  If they were
converted to "circular" patterns with the next move in the center, and no
don’t cares, there would probably be over a million patterns.

David

> -----Original Message-----
> From: computer-go-bounces at dvandva.org [mailto:computer-go-
> bounces at dvandva.org] On Behalf Of Hideki Kato
> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 12:01 AM
> To: computer-go at dvandva.org
> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Orego 7.08 released
> 
> Hello Darren-san,
> 
> Darren Cook: <4D2D3013.5010000 at dcook.org>:
> >> Zen uses no opening book for 19x19 (but some joseki knowledge must
> >> provided by the patterns acquired from game records)....
> >
> >Hello Kato-san,
> >Does Zen use patterns bigger than 3x3 then? (And if so, in the playouts
> >too, or just in the MCTS tree?)
> 
> AFAIK Zen is the first success of the large patterns in Rémi's paper.
> The maximum diagonal of the patterns is 7 (Erica uses 9 ;^) and only
> used in the tree part.  Although Yamato started MoGo-style playout
> with local 3x3 patterns, now it's very complicated with lots of his
> ideas.
> 
> Hideki
> 
> >On the subject of joseki, it seemed Many Faces came off equal or
> >distinctly worse in the joseki in the games against John Tromp. So, I
> >think it needs still more joseki knowledge?
> >
> >By the way, in game 1 John played a move (G15) that was not joseki (F15
> >is apparently the joseki move). John read the KGS comments between
> >games, and played the correct move when the same pattern came up in game
> >2 :-)
> >
> >Darren
> >
> >
> >  Yamato once
> >> tried but made Zen weaker in benchmarks, possibly due to a mismatching
> >> of the playing style.
> >>
> >> Hideki
> >>
> >>> This is the same with the situations of human learning. When a player
> is
> >>> weaker than 1d, joseki is not so important, because if he is leading
> 10
> >>> points in the opening stage, the game might be reversed by losing 20
> points
> >>> in an easy semeai of middle game. But, when a player is improved to 1d
> or
> >>> 2d, joseki starts to make sense, since his reading ability makes the
> "semeai
> >>> big loss" much
> >>> fewer.
> >>>
> >>> For me, I can't imagine to beat a 6d player without joseki knowledge.
> When I
> >>> lose 10 points in the opening, that is almost decisive. That's why
> pros
> >>> sometimes resign early and immediately after wrong joseki playing,
> because
> >>> there is no chance to reverse, in their view.
> >>>
> >>> The stronger the playing strengh, the more important the opening play.
> 9x9
> >>> Go is exactly a good example for statement. Do you think mfgo, on 9x9,
> can
> >>> beat a strong program, if the first move is played at the first line?
> :)
> >>>
> >>> Aja
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> --
> Hideki Kato <mailto:hideki_katoh at ybb.ne.jp>
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