[Computer-go] CrazyStone in the 5-dan footsteps of Zen

[Aja Huang]

Jouni, 6d’s are NOT ridiculously strong. I am a solid 6d KGS player but 
lost many games to Zen and Crazy Stones. Actually they might be able to 
reach 6d already with 10 secs/move or in even faster games.

Aja


From: Jouni Valkonen
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 1:07 PM
To: computer-go at dvandva.org
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] CrazyStone in the 5-dan footsteps of Zen


Jeff, it does not matter what ten humans does with the games, because they 
are insignificant compared to bulk mass of games that gobots are playing. 
therefore CS's it has no relevance for the rating system. Also 6 months is 
very very short time, and when old games are starting to expire, KGS rating 
will follow. See e.g. CS rating graph for reference.

KGS rating system works brilliantly and it is almost impossible to exploit, 
because only way to exploit it is to make 8d? account and then go kibitzing 
other people's games, but if there are only few games played, it has very 
little influence for system as a whole. Therefore it is certainly better 
rating system than in any other Chess and Go servers. (it is even better 
than Glicko)

People observe KGS-rating system often problematic, because it punishes most 
severely those who are weak players.

one improvement to rating system could be, that it would calculate separate 
ratings for both, slow and blitz games.

6d for MC-gobot seems a bit optimistic, I would bet €5 that it won't happen 
in 2012. 6d's are ridiculously strong. I calculated that in January, out of 
56 games against 5d's CS won 48%. This is indeed impressive, although there 
is long way to beat 6d's in even game.

     –Jouni


On 7 January 2012 21:03, Jeff Nowakowski <jeff at dilacero.org> wrote:

  On 01/02/2012 05:04 PM, Rémi Coulom wrote:


    Improving the KGS rank at 5d is very difficult. The current
    experimental version of Crazy Stone wins 78% against Crazy Stone
    2011. That's less than one stone difference on KGS. But I am sure
    both Zen and Crazy Stone will reach 6d in 2012.



  There are two problems with the KGS rankings:

  One, they are weighed down a lot by past games from weaker versions.

  Two, you have to worry about people trying to game the system. I found 
strong evidence that one of the frequent CrazyStone players was losing games 
intentionally against a weaker bot, while at the same time winning 
frequently against CrazyStone.

  I brought this up with an admin, and he said they were looking into it, 
but several days have gone by and the player was not deranked (which is the 
usual punishment for gaming the system, and would remove past games from the 
rank calculation).




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