[Computer-go] Zen blunder in long mirror go game

[Jouni Valkonen]

Aja, you are talking something that has zero relevance for this topic. Zen
was winning by ½ point, but it miscalculated in late yose and blundered
severely. This was serious endgame bug. This thread has absolutely nothing
to do with the fact that the game was mirrored, but only that that Zen
throw away the game in late yose.

I have seen in my own games several times, when Zen has blundered in late
yose and have lost a won games. I think that it is due that zen is winning
by half point or so, but miscalculates and then tries something irrational.
It would be good idea to analyze, to see what went wrong with Zen's
evaluation of the score. Was that it miscalculated the territory or did it
misread the seki thing?

  –Jouni

On 17 January 2012 02:44, Aja Huang <ajahuang at gmail.com> wrote:

>   I am not talking about that Zen’s “blunder” but simply mentioned in
> passing about handling mirroring strategy that Yamato and we don’t want to
> spend time with. For this game, you should be strong enough to judge Zen
> was winning or not.
>
> Aja
>
>
>  *From:* Jouni Valkonen <jounivalkonen at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 16, 2012 5:33 PM
> *To:* Aja Huang <ajahuang at gmail.com> ; computer-go at dvandva.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Computer-go] Zen blunder in long mirror go game
>
>
> I think that the main problem was not winning or losing a mirrored game
> but the blunder in late endgame by playing suicidal move. Perhaps Zen was
> losing the game, so this was the reason for the blunder. But if Zen was
> winning, then it was serious bug and it had nothing to do with the
> mirroring itself.
>
>       —Jouni
> On Jan 17, 2012 2:26 AM, "Aja Huang" <ajahuang at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In the last UEC Cup, the Japanese program katsunari played with mirror Go
>> strategy against Zen, Fuego and ManyFaces. katsunari lost all three games.
>>
>> http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/**eng/result_2nd/Zen-katsunari.**sgf.html<http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/result_2nd/Zen-katsunari.sgf.html>
>> http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/**eng/result_2nd/katsunari-**Fuego.sgf.html<http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/result_2nd/katsunari-Fuego.sgf.html>
>> http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/**eng/result_2nd/katsunari-**
>> TheManyFacesofGo.sgf.html<http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/result_2nd/katsunari-TheManyFacesofGo.sgf.html>
>>
>> Note that Fuego lost the game finally (by filling own territories)
>> because I carelessly set the config with Chinese rules.  Anyway, there
>> should be no problem for current strong Go programs on mirror Go strategy
>> in "EVEN or tournament games".
>>
>> Aja
>>
>> -----原始郵件----- From: Yamato
>> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:16 PM
>> To: computer-go at dvandva.org
>> Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Zen blunder in long mirror go game
>>
>> (2012/01/17 8:43), Michael Williams wrote:
>>
>>> If the author looks at it, could you update us?  I'm always curious
>>> about how such things happen, especially in a bot as strong as Zen.
>>>
>>
>> Honestly I don't want to spend a lot of time on this type of problem.
>>
>> --
>> Yamato
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>
>
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