[Computer-go] Zen blunder in long mirror go game

[Aja Huang]

OK, I see your point. So it should be Yamato reply the question if he like. 
:)

Aja

From: Jouni Valkonen
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 6:45 PM
To: Aja Huang ; computer-go
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Zen blunder in long mirror go game

Aja, you are talking something that has zero relevance for this topic. Zen 
was winning by ½ point, but it miscalculated in late yose and blundered 
severely. This was serious endgame bug. This thread has absolutely nothing 
to do with the fact that the game was mirrored, but only that that Zen throw 
away the game in late yose.

I have seen in my own games several times, when Zen has blundered in late 
yose and have lost a won games. I think that it is due that zen is winning 
by half point or so, but miscalculates and then tries something irrational. 
It would be good idea to analyze, to see what went wrong with Zen's 
evaluation of the score. Was that it miscalculated the territory or did it 
misread the seki thing?

  –Jouni

On 17 January 2012 02:44, Aja Huang <ajahuang at gmail.com> wrote:

  I am not talking about that Zen’s “blunder” but simply mentioned in 
passing about handling mirroring strategy that Yamato and we don’t want to 
spend time with. For this game, you should be strong enough to judge Zen was 
winning or not.

  Aja


  From: Jouni Valkonen
  Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:33 PM
  To: Aja Huang ; computer-go at dvandva.org
  Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Zen blunder in long mirror go game

  I think that the main problem was not winning or losing a mirrored game 
but the blunder in late endgame by playing suicidal move. Perhaps Zen was 
losing the game, so this was the reason for the blunder. But if Zen was 
winning, then it was serious bug and it had nothing to do with the mirroring 
itself.

        —Jouni

  On Jan 17, 2012 2:26 AM, "Aja Huang" <ajahuang at gmail.com> wrote:

    In the last UEC Cup, the Japanese program katsunari played with mirror 
Go strategy against Zen, Fuego and ManyFaces. katsunari lost all three 
games.

    http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/result_2nd/Zen-katsunari.sgf.html
    http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/result_2nd/katsunari-Fuego.sgf.html
    http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/result_2nd/katsunari-TheManyFacesofGo.sgf.html

    Note that Fuego lost the game finally (by filling own territories) 
because I carelessly set the config with Chinese rules.  Anyway, there 
should be no problem for current strong Go programs on mirror Go strategy in 
"EVEN or tournament games".

    Aja

    -----原始郵件----- From: Yamato
    Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:16 PM
    To: computer-go at dvandva.org
    Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Zen blunder in long mirror go game

    (2012/01/17 8:43), Michael Williams wrote:

      If the author looks at it, could you update us?  I'm always curious
      about how such things happen, especially in a bot as strong as Zen.


    Honestly I don't want to spend a lot of time on this type of problem.

    -- 
    Yamato
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